Thursday, November 13, 2008

Commentary from Lou V.

More Commentary from Lou V. - Missing Bartender Cont.

Last week Wazy's Rant involved the missing Bartender issue at River Rand Bowl. I totally agree with him that at times, there is nobody there. You go for a drink and there is nobody to serve you.

I was told yesterday that it is not the bartenders fault...well how are we supposed to know that? Go for a bartender...blame bartender.

All of us at love River Rand Bowl and the great times we have there, and when we make comments about the place, it is for the Good of the place. We want it to thrive so that we have somewhere to go and have our fun.

So don't take our comments wrong, when we see issues as customers and it is our right and duty to say something. It may be none of our business in theory, but as paying customers for years, we have earned the right to express our opinions.


  1. Lou, I completely agree with you. As paying customers you definitely have a right to say something. As an officer of the Wednesday Men's league you have even a bigger right to say something. When some of our quieter bowlers come up to us and ask what is going on with this, or have a problem with something we need to try and do something about it. We have the duty as officers to try and make our league bowlers happy. If they are unhappy about something we need to try and fix it.

    If anyone took offense to Wazy's article, I can understand. If someone complained about the work that I have done I would be mad about it, but at the same time I would try and figure out why they were mad and use the suggestion to better my work. It is called creative criticism. If someone makes a suggestion, it doesn't mean they dislike you, it means they are trying to help. No one's feelings should be hurt.

    There is a reason the Wednesday B&I league has grown over the last two years, and the rest of the RRB league have seemingly downsized. My guess is the officers have something to do with it. RRB should not handcuff the officers of a league from trying to better the league.

  2. We all want this bowling center to get better. It's an awesome place that we can call home. How many other centers can you actually bowl and drink with the owner? We want our league to get as big as it can, not just for the league but for the house as well. We bring in new teams and want to keep them, you want them to feel welcome as we all are. All stuff that has been said is exactly what Kev said it is, constructive criticism. Also, to people who really don't know Kev. All his work has always been for the good of the league and for the good of the house. Not once have I seen him make a suggestion that would hurt either and better himself. Thanks to all who back what I said, not just our normal guys but all I had no idea felt the same way.

  3. Wazy and Kevin amd most of us really care about River Rand Bowl. It is our "country club" and a place where share common interests with real friends.

    When there is a "problem" at home, we try to fix it. Having 1000's of games bowled for free makes a chump out of Craig...especially free bowling by people who don't even bowl in a league in the house...and having nobody at the counter or bar when you need services is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

    Our opinions should count double since we are good customers 1 or 2 leagues per week, spend lots of $$ and really care about the place and having the business and leagues grow.

    Don't worry what anyone says...are thoughts should be published.

  4. I really like the Country Club aspect. We used to be members at Medinah Country Club. There are different types of memberships and discounts that always apply. Oh yeah, there was also Junior Memberships. These were for younger single people who could not afford all the ritzi stuff. The were allowed on certain courses at certain times and the same went for dining as well as all the other perks. If you played more and used caddies more and spent more in the pro shop and food. You would qualify for certain discounts. What I am getting at is that if you put more money towards the club, the club rewards you. Clubs also listened to suggestions from members and always did what would benefit both. Kev and myself are representing our league when we say this stuff, we want our league to grow, cuz when the leaguegrows, so does our prize fund. Oh yeah, so does lineage and bar sales and vending machine sales.Also judging by Lou's latest comment, he is officialy on board with giving Craig suggestions to help us all get this place where it should be. Maybe if we pants Craig every once in a while to show him how much we care.

  5. When you pants him are you going to take another picture of his @$$?

  6. A couple of announcements.

    Both RIVER RAND JUNIOR TRAVEL TEAMS are in 1st and 2nd place

    RIVER RAND GOLD 2nd place


    RIVER RAND BLUE 1st Place


    This is as of November 15th 2008

    Also, Miller Light is the official sponsor of the ESTROGEN OPEN SCRATCH WOMENS TOURNAMENT which RIVER RAND hosts.

    If this blog is about RIVER RAND. I think it is also good for you to write about the RIVER RAND Travel teams.

    They REPRESENT RIVER RAND just as much as the rest of the leagues.

  7. When there is a "problem" at home, we try to fix it. Having 1000's of games bowled for free makes a chump out of Craig...especially free bowling by people who don't even bowl in a league in the house...and having nobody at the counter or bar when you need services is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

    Well i will say it again.. NOBODY BOWLS FOR FREE ANYMORE.

    whether it is $1.00 a game.. they pay for their games.

    as posted above... those are the junior bowlers. and they pay for their league bowling on saturday mornings as well as they pay for their junior travel league.

    so when you say they bowl for free.. they are junior bowlers with NO JOBS. They are still in school.
    So 1.00 a game is basically a reasonalbe amount for them to REPRESENT RIVER RAND BOWL.

  8. Whatever Craig charges needs to be enforced. I think $1 a game is a complete farce though. I was paying $1 a game way back when I first started traveling league...that was 13 years ago. I had a job, at the bowling center, when I was 13 years old. I got that job just so that I could pay for all of the bowling I wanted to do. That included junior league, traveling league, practicing and tournaments. Most of these kids are well old enough to have a job. They should all get jobs, whether to pay for bowling or not...that is just my opinion.

  9. I for one wouldn't want people who take advantage of Craig represent River Rand Bowl. $1 a game is the biggest piece of crap ever. What the hell were league lineage fees 25 years ago? I bet it wasn't $3.75 a game. How is it that league fees have probably tripled but juniors stay at a buck a game. Anyone who thinks a buck a game is reasonable is surely full of themselves or shit, no way in hell can a buck a game be justified. If you can't afford 2 bucks a game, find something else to do with yourself, like, I don't know, get a part time job.

  10. To All Concerned,

    This is Lou's Bowling Blog. If you want to make announcements or state how someone should write the blog. Maybe you should come up with your own blog. Oh yeah, by the way Miller has sponsored my stupid golf outing for the past 11 years, who the f-ck cares.If you would like to write about the juniors and their travels, do it on your own blog and charge them a buck a line to read it. Stop using the word REPRESENT like it actually means anything.

    Do we all feel better now?

  11. Hey Lou,

    If you are writing about River Rand Bowl, could you please mention how I had an itch on my ass Monday night .Cuz I did have an itch and it happened at River Rand.


  12. Again, what Craig decides to charge or not charge in non of anyones damn business... like it or not... it is what it is! To the above comment by Waz... this blog is for River Rand Bowl and all those involved with it... if YOU do not like the comments about the junior bowlers then don't f_cken read them... this is what i meant in my previous post... you act like you are someone's friend or as if you like someone as a person... but you come on here and talk shit or bash others... its easy to talk shit to someone that won't fight back... I promise you won't try that sh_t with ME!

  13. just back off of the juniors..u were once a junior bowler who paid like a buck for a game and now ur just getting mad cuz u dont get that anymore. No need to take it out on us anymore cuz ur jealous cuz u dont get lessons wit WMFC (Will Mother F**king Clark) anymore. Its not our fault!!!!

  14. Man I go away to college and people are still bitching about how us juniors still get free games and lessons I know I paid Craig on saturdays when I came into practice but that was when I was there to work on my game myself and not with Will like such times during the week. I don't care really what has happened in your past while you were a kid I know your not going across the country to bowl JOG, Teen Masters, Iowas, Indianas, Illinois, Wisconsins not to mention the larger youth tourneys as Junior World Team Challenge, Firecracker, and the Main Event which if your in this sport to make money or Team USA even as a youth you still need to spend money. Just to go out and bowl Team Trials is 350 plus hotel flight food and not to mention side pots and brackets. I know when I went to the Main Event im spending close to a G and thats a lot of fucking money for a kid to spend on a youth tournament and especially not to come home with a dime. No parents out there are about to drop that either so in all do respect let fucking Craig do something nice for the kids and let them practice for free especially if they want to go somewhere in their lives making a living off bowling. PEACE OUT

    Tommy Smith

  15. Tommy, good to hear from you bud. How is school? How is bowling? How is everything?

    I definitely see your viewpoint Tommy. Here's our point though. If Craig charges you guys nothing or next to nothing, he still needs to make money, so where will he get it from? Everyone else that bowls, which includes our league, the open bowling prices that league bowlers pay, and higher bar prices that we would pay. I wish that all of you went out kicked ass at any tournament that you guys go to. I paid a decent portion of my college from tournament scholarships I won, just as you guys have and are trying. I also give you props for all the time and effort you guys put into the game so you can get better. We all know that it doesn't just fall into you lap, you need to earn it. However, it isn't right that everyone else has to pay for any of your success. I understand tournaments and travel are expensive, but that doesn't mean league bowlers suffer the cost. William is one of, if not the best, coach in the area. Especially for junior bowlers. He is also one of the most willing people to help others improve their game. My game and confidence has improved 100% because of him, and I didn't work with him anywhere the amount of time you guys have. However, all the time and effort he puts into helping you only effects him. The time he sets aside for you guys is his decision and in no way effects anyone else. What does effect others though is not being charged anything. That is why we are unhappy about the situation. There is no other bowling center where this would even be debated, because it would never happen. Hundreds of games being given away for free or all but free, with nothing in return? That is a completely bad business decision. Free games and discounts have their place and reasoning when distributed on a controlled basis, but flat out giving the place away is absurd.

    I like practically every one of you that had bowled and does bowl for the junior league. However, you are all adults. I'm only 9-10 years removed from the same situation you guys are in. I was paying $1 a game back then, but that was when league bowlers were being charged $1.50. When I first started 15 years ago I was being charged $1 and that is what all league bowlers were charged. Times have changed and costs have gone up. $1 a game is not nearly enough. Another thing was all of the traveling league bowlers also worked at the bowling center. They were giving back to the bowling center.

    I wouldn't expect your parents to dish out a couple hundred dollars for you to bowl a tournament...but I also don't expect leagues that I bowl in to dish out a few thousand dollars for you all to bowl. I know most, if not all of you were/are going to school. You aren't going to school 24/7 though. A part-time job should cover any bowling you guys need to do.

    Don't take any of this personally, but it does become personal when someone is taking money out of our pockets. We have more than a right to say something. If management thinks we are out of line or crazy then let them say that. You just need to realize how much money the people that are speaking up are pushing into the bowling center. They are all very dedicated bowlers. These aren't people who just pay for 3 games a week and that's it. They go to the bar, bowl in multiple leagues, open bowl and so on.

    The econonmy is taking a dump and more than a few of us have been hit hard. Whether its the businesses we own or the stock market we were in. Everyone is stabilizing their own budgets, we all have to. When you try to explain to someone that their cost goes from $10.75 per week for lineage to $11.75 per week (for 3 games...equals almost $4 per game), and open bowl is $2.25 per game, and then someone elses cost per game is $ best. Explain to me how people wouldn't be mad.

    No hard feelings. I appreciate your opinion. Just rebutting. Good luck in school. Keep us up to date.

  16. KarateKid...

    We are not jealous that we don't get lessons from WMFC (as you call him). We all have the same opportunity as you do. We all know his door is open, and some of us have worked with William, and some are currently working with William.

    If anyone takes anything out on you guys it is is frustrating to see your guys' assumption that bowling is free certain nights. Instead of doing the right thing and paying what you have been asked to pay, with whatever you have setup with Craig, some of you just walk out and not pay. It shouldn't take Dee having to be there to collect from you guys. You all should take that initiative.

    Now, on the other note. Whatever Craig charges you is what he charges you. That is not your guys' fault. However, we have every right to be frustrated at Craig for not charging a league rate and/or the staff from enforcing payment.

    You cannot tell me you wouldn't be mad if you walked into McDonald's and the lady charges you $6 for a BigMac and charges the person behind you $2 for a BigMac. Everyone in the world would say something to the cashier and probably make their way to asking for their manager.

    I wish all of you guys all the success you can get. Working with William right now is the best time to do it, because you're young and can change your ways a lot quicker right now. If you are willing to put the effort into it, then good for you. However, it shouldn't be at someone elses cost.

  17. Kevin, this is nothing about you but if you and the rest of the CULT are bitching about the bowling situation then why do you come in on friday nights or saturday nights and turn the lanes on PRACTICE MODE and bowl. I think that is being a little hypocritical don't you think ? AND Johnny and Gerbil and Matt hmmmm I am not pointing fingers but you blame this shit on US when in fact you are just to blame.

    ALSO, is it not true that Craig was charging you guys 1.00 a game for the BBT but only YOU TOOK IT UPON YOURSELVES to charge the BBT 1.50 for lineage.

    DO NOT push your feelings on everyone else when you guys get just as big of discount as everyone else.

    I have also spoken to some other bowling alleys that have JUNIOR BOWLING LEAGUES and guess what .. They as well offer anywhere from .25 a game to 1.00 a game.

    Oh and by the way I offered to collect the money because TIME AND AGAIN when the bowlers came to the counter to pay for their games.. the money NEVER ENDED UP IN THE REGISTER. and I am Not POINTING ANY FINGERS ON THAT.

    SO get this straight.


    Juniors pay 1.00 N O T F R E E B O W L I NG

  18. I believe it is a lot easier to point the finger at someone else, than it is to point it back at yourself! No 1 person is responsible or at fault to this issue at RRB... And I believe each one of us here on the blog should be held to the same accountability… but there is a way to address these issues... IMO, I do not think that a rant on a blog is the correct approach... With that being said... This is a free country and yes you are free to say what you want when you want... but at the same time you should have the B@LLS to say those same opinions and/or thoughts to those people face to face... MOST of you walk around RRB and "act" like you get along or like DEE... but we all know the walls have ears and word spread likes wild fire... and I know many of you fake a$$ b!tches talk shit about her behind her back... All I ask is leave that sh!t alone... because unlike many of "YOU" I will have no problem approaching you with my issues... If you do not like or agree with Dee's or my opinion... then you can take that up with me... Stop being a damn fake & a hypocrite!

  19. Dee...of all people to talk about me practicing for free, that is hilarious. I don't practice. I have practiced 1 time this year and it was for 3 games. I do believe I haven't charged the bowling center anything for the past 10+ of working for them. The many times I have covered the counter, covered the bar, fixed their computers, came in for emergency help with the bowling program or scoring system, covered a call in the back, closed because someone had to leave, prepare for a party at the last second, put up with wireless internet...amongst a million other things. I do believe that is more than enough to cover the very few games I have bowled. Do remind me what the juniors do for the bowling center?

    At what point did I "blame this shit on US"? I must have missed that. Please let me know where I placed blame on you guys.

    I do believe Johnny works there, so I think that's a decent reason to bowl for free, just my opinion. Gerbil and Matt, I don't know. You need to take that up with them and whoever is working at the time. I'm also sure that they don't bowl 100+ games a week. If you want me to take up that battle too, then let me add it to my list, just in front of conquering world peace for all. I am picking the big battles at the moment that I know my league is concerned with. I wouldn't call us a CULT, I think we are called a men's bowling league. This is a league issue. There are not few of us that are concerned about this. There are only a few of us speaking, because we are considered officers, and that is what officers of a league are supposed to do. Officers of a league are voted on so they do what is best for the league and take any actions that are needed when the league has concerns. If bowlers comes to officers with complaints, we try to fix them. I am missing the CULT idea.

    "ALSO, is it not true that Craig was charging you guys 1.00 a game for the BBT but only YOU TOOK IT UPON YOURSELVES to charge the BBT 1.50 for lineage."

    You're right, it is not true that Craig was charging us $1 a game for the BBT. He was trying to charge us $0 a game, but we refused. Last year we charged ourselves $1 a game. You're also right that we took it upon ourselves to raise ourselves to $1.50 a game, because we thought $1 a game was no longer cutting it. Thus, the reason we raised the entry from $20 to $22. If you would like to ask Craig why he is charging us $0.00 a game and we are only charging ourselves $1.50 a game, you are free to do that. If he chooses to raise the rate, that is his decision and we will go from there. Don't put the lineage charge of the BBT on "you guys", put it all on me. It was my final decision and I enforce it. I take full responsibility for that.

    "Oh and by the way I offered to collect the money because TIME AND AGAIN when the bowlers came to the counter to pay for their games.. the money NEVER ENDED UP IN THE REGISTER. and I am Not POINTING ANY FINGERS ON THAT."
    I know. I mentioned that already. That isn't the junior league bowlers faults, that is RRB's staff fault.

    Other bowling centers:
    - Hawthorn: All bowlers are the same price, there are no league rates for junior or adult bowlers.
    - Thunderbird: All bowlers are the same price, there are no league rates for junior or adult bowlers.
    - AMF Rolling Meadows: All league bowlers are charged $2.13, which is discounted from regular rates.
    - Beverly Lanes: All league bowlers are charged $1.75, which is discounted from regular rates.
    - Eskape (Buffalo Grove): All league bowlers receive a league bowler card which gets them 20% regular rates.
    - Elk Grove: All bowlers are the same price, there are no league rates for junior or adult bowlers.
    - Classic & Stardust Bowl: All league bowlers have a league bowler card and receive a $1.25 of regular rates.

    Dee, I'm must be missing the bowling centers you're talking about or I'm missing something here. Above is what I was told a junior league bowler is charged. Not one of these places said $0.25 to $1.00.
    There's a chance you are talking about some specials they have going on, but those are specials. Specials mean that every single person gets that rate, not just league bowlers, and not just junior league bowlers. All of the bowling centers that had the super cheap rates of $1 or less were all for the weekdays before 5pm. If Craig would like to setup specials that would be awesome. The difference is, that would be for everyone, not just Junior league bowlers.

    There's nothing to get straigt...we understand junior league bowlers are being charged $1.00 a game.
    What we aren't on the same page about is $1.00 per game is ridiculous for the amount of games that are bowled. Find me a bowling center that would allow 4 lanes of open bowling, by league bowlers, in the evening, to be going for $1 a game. I called all the bowling centers in the area and not one of them have that.
    The $1.00 is something we need to take up with Craig. That is not the junior league bowlers fault.

    SO get this straight.
    Everything...and I mean everything that the Wednesday Night B&I league has a problem with, will go thru Craig. There will be no discussion about it with anyone. Period, end of story. There is nothing else to discuss here. This is the way it should have been done in the first place, but way too many people became way too frustrated for way too long and when it all builds up, it just all boils over. Until this has been resolved with Craig, the Wednesday league is done discussing this.

    Please do not bring any of these things up to any of our league bowlers, ESPECIALLY while they are bowling in league!!! That is just a common courtesy.

    If you would like to discuss this any further please bring it up DIRECTLY to me. If you would like to chat, I am more than willing to do it by phone or after all bowling has concluded Wednesday night/Thursday morning.

  20. I agree with you CZR, it is easy to point fingers at someone, so I choose you to point at. Just kidding.

    To be serious again...
    No more pointing fingers in needed, no more blame placed. Let's all settle down. Everyone has some good/great points. I understand everyone has an opinion and a point of view and I see where everyone one of you is coming from...but my opinion and point of view is the correct one...damn, me not being serious again...ok I'm ready...

    There's a lot of tension between too many people. It shouldn't have gotten to this and I will definitely take a decent portion of the blame for that. However, because I am taking a large portion of the blame, I would also like to shut down all the tension going on. The posts and comments sections for this/these subjects have been up for awhile and I think everyone's opinion has gotten across pretty clearly. Many people's opinions have been stated in person as well. Until the people that have the inquiry (B&I league) and the person they should be directly talking to (Craig) have talked, I please ask for no more discussion about this.

    Many people have already directly talked to Craig about a lot of things. It hasn't been formal enough yet.

    I leave it at that. CZR you smell. Ok, I now leave it at that.

  21. "I leave it at that. CZR you smell. Ok, I now leave it at that." not funny... oh by the way leave my vowels along mr.straigt... lol so concerned about vowels you forgot about the other 21 letters... :)

  22. btw... that does explain the name "reinfart" the same letter is missing... way to go Gringo!

  23. CZR,
    As President of the Wed. night league, it is most certainly my business what others get charged. It is my right to inquire to Craig about anything that concerns my league. My league fees went up, Craig had no problem telling me why when asked. Craig also has had no problem with
    answering why he charges what he does and to whom. Multiple members of our league have questioned service, bar or otherwise and it is my duty to get answers to them. the Wed. league is the most profitable league for RRB. What my league bowlers pay for practice versus other people is my concern. Craig told me he has talked to the staff numerous times over the past couple years about slow service. Now with postings on the blog he had proof to show them. It is the officers job to help a league grow and we need the help of the house as well. As far as talking to someones face, isn't that what we did last week? This has nothing to do with the BBT people, nothing at all. It has to do with the concerns of members of my league.

  24. Waz, I want to hug you...wait, actually it's PJ I want to hug. Not sure why, just an urge I think.


If you swear, hide the works like Fu_k etc.

Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.